Jaden:
... and try to clone that through AI to say whatever they want. And they'll call you, like a grandparent or something and say, "Hey, we have your grandchild, he's here. He's either been arrested or kidnapped. He's right here with him. We need you to pay him to bail him out."

Andrea:
Oh my goodness. I have chills, in a bad way.

Jaden:
And because of that cloning AI voice that they've generated, it could sound pretty close to what that grandchild sounds like.

Andrea:
Welcome to Connected Conversations, the official podcast of Kosciusko Connect. Kosciusko Connect is a subsidiary of Kosciusko REMC. Since 2021, we have been providing lightning-fast, reliable fiber-to-the-home internet service to rural portions of Northern Indiana.

On Connected Conversations, we talk about fiber internet, technology, community, and how to navigate the digital world in which we live. I'm your host, Andrea Melton. Thank you for connecting with us today.
Today, we're talking cybersecurity, in part because October is recognized as Cybersecurity Awareness Month. Cybersecurity Awareness Month is actually a collaboration between the government and private industry to raise awareness about digital security and really empower everyone to protect their personal data from digital forms of crime.

And in fact, 2023 marks the 20th Cybersecurity Awareness Month campaign, so that's pretty cool. But we're also talking cybersecurity because this topic has come up in recent conversation here at the office.

It comes up because of the nature of our business, of course. It comes up because we offer Guardian Protection, which is an incredibly robust tool that subscribers can add to their fiber internet plan, and it offers security from cyber attacks and also parental control features.

But, the topic also comes up because we hear directly from our subscribers about their experiences with cyber threats and cyber attacks. So in the interest of serving the needs of our subscribers, we thought a conversation about the current state of cybersecurity was warranted. So, in the studio with me today, I have Jaden Moneyhun again. Hi Jaden.

Jaden:
Hello.

Andrea:
Jaden. For anyone who doesn't remember, can you remind us about your role here at Kosciusko Connect?

Jaden:
Yeah, of course. So, I am the fiber support specialist here at Kosciusko Connect, and I have a number of roles. Mainly what I do most is answer over the phone, mostly just tech support questions that a customer will call in, say their internet's not working, or they're having trouble connecting some devices. I'm usually the main guy to talk to.

Andrea:
I think that that's pretty straightforward then about why you would be the guest in here today, because you are on the phone every day with our customers. And so I know that you come with a lot of insight into the topic of cybersecurity, so let's get into it. Okay?

Jaden:
Yeah, Sounds good.

Andrea:
In your experience, Jaden, how big of a threat are cyber attacks and scams to internet users, especially those in our region?

Jaden:
Yeah, it's definitely a huge issue to worry about, especially as our lives kind of become more ingrained in needing to use technology. I feel like there's not many people left that don't use some type of technology every single day.

Andrea:
For sure.

Jaden:
As always, with using that technology, there's going to be kind of threats to worry about. That could even be with something about your passwords. Your question was how big of a threat would it be? Yeah, a pretty big one.

Andrea:
It's a pretty big, so I want people to understand that this isn't something that is unlikely. It is a prevalent, a likely threat we need to learn about and be aware of.

Jaden:
Nope, I deal with it, customers calling in about something along this cybersecurity matter, I say I deal with it at least a few times a week, and that's just our customers and our members. There's definitely a lot more out there in the region that are affected as well, who don't call into us.

Andrea:
Okay. So, when we talk cyber attacks and cyber threats, there's a lot of variety of them. There's different kinds. Recently, we've been publishing blog articles about those specific different types of attacks and describing what they are and giving people some information how to look out for them. And so we won't go over every individual attack that exists today, but can you share some common types of cyber attacks or scams that you have seen or heard of affecting our customers and subscribers?

Jaden:
Yeah, so the main type of scam that I see people associate with is the online scam, where they will be on some type of website and there'll be a big red ad that pops up on your screen and it'll say, "Your computer's got a virus," and, "Call this number to get it fixed." So, when that pops up, obviously people get scared. They're like, "My computer's being hacked, I got to call this number to fix it." Well, that's actually a part of the scam, because at that point, nothing's wrong with your computer. It's just something that's trying to scare you. You can close it out and your computer's completely fine. But the main point of the scam is to get people to call that number, whether it be saying it's Microsoft or some type of different company that they need to call to get help.

Andrea:
Right. So you think you're calling somebody who's going to help you with the computer, and then what happens when they call?

Jaden:
So, when they call, usually they just try to ask for their information and try to pretend to be technicians, and there could be a number of different ways they try to get money from you. The most common one would be that they ask to use a certain type of software to connect to your computer, and usually that's called TeamViewer is a popular one.

Andrea:
Okay. I've heard of TeamViewer.

Jaden:
And of course, that isn't always a bad software. It's not all scammers use TeamViewers and not all TeamViewer users or scammers, of course.

Andrea:
Right, right. It's a common tool in a workplace to use TeamViewer. Yeah.

Jaden:
Yeah, definitely. They'll use TeamViewer to connect to your computer and they'll run a bunch of random meaningless code on your computer that just shows... It's basically a script that'll show just a bunch of random numbers and letters that are on every computer and meaningless, and they're like, "Oh, that's right there. You see that number 26, that's how many hackers are on your computer." And it's just basically a big game of pretend.

Andrea:
It's a big scare tactic.

Jaden:
Yeah. And they'll be like, "Well, to get these hackers off your computer, you need to pay us, give us money." And that could be also through a number of ways. The most popular one is to use physical gift cards, like Google Play cards or Target gift cards. Speaking out loud, if you go through the process, it doesn't really make much sense. Why would they need a gift card to-

Andrea:
Right. Yeah. This isn't adding up in my head.

Jaden:
... to fix your computer.

Andrea:
For sure.

Jaden:
But if people are scared, they're like, "Okay, well, we're going to do whatever it takes to get these hackers off." So, that's the whole point that they're gunning for, is that they want to scare you into not really thinking clearly and just giving that person the gift cards so that they can take it and just hang up and take your money, basically.

Andrea:
Right. Wow. And so you have talked with our subscribers who have fallen victim to this exact sort of-

Jaden:
Yes, yep.

Andrea:
Would you say that oftentimes it is maybe people who are older who are targeted for such scams and who fall victim to those scams? Would you say that to be true?

Jaden:
Yeah, that could definitely be true. The number that I have talked to are definitely older, but it is something that even younger generations can watch out for and look out. For cybersecurity-wise, even I've downloaded virus myself when I was younger.

Andrea:
I have too. I'm going to be honest and transparent. And it was probably about 10 years ago at a former job, and I hope my manager and others listening, coworkers, aren't scared that I might do it again. But I was at work and I downloaded the thing you were not supposed to download, and everything came to a screeching halt for a little while while they took care of it. It was at a newspaper office that I worked at. So yeah, it can be anyone who falls a victim to a lot of these.

Jaden:
Yeah. The best thing you can do is just try to stay educated and second guess absolutely everything. Even if it looks completely fine, always make sure you see where it's coming from and make sure everything's spelled correctly and formatted, looks like it's formatted good. So, the best that you can do is just try to fight against it.

Andrea:
Jaden, I know we've talked before recently, and you've heard some stories from subscribers who've called in who have fallen victim to a cyber attack or a scam and really have lost some large sums of money to these criminals. So, with no interest in divulging anyone's personal information or situation, can you give another example of how something like that might happen and what people should do to spot that when it's happening and protect themselves?

Jaden:
Yeah. So, another one that I can think of, this member lost more than six figures, and it was a similar computer scam where they called them up and I believe they were pretending to be Amazon, and they said, "Your Amazon accounts, and by extension, your credit card has been compromised, and we need to move that money into a safe place."

Obviously he was scared, and I believe at that point they were pretending to be either the IRS or the FTC, one of the big important government companies. Yeah, so he was scared at that point and he was like, "Well, I need to do something and these are obviously government workers. They're going to protect me."

So they convinced him to move all of his money into some type of online wallet. It's called a Bitcoin wallet, which folks at home don't know what it is, it's basically like a internet bank account that can't be traced. So if you put money in there, it's one of the most untraceable forms of currency we have nowadays. So, they basically convinced him to put all that money in that Bitcoin wallet. Since they were on his computer, they basically just changed the password, bam, locked him out and took all the money out.

Andrea:
Wow. Just gone. And then untraceable.

Jaden:
Yep. It is something that's kind of devastating when he goes into the office, 'cause when it gets to that point, there's not too much we can do. The best he can do is contact his bank and try to get it reversed before all the funds go through. I believe that one, the member was able to get some of the money back, so thankfully,

Andrea:
Good.

Jaden:
Yeah, it's just something that you have to be careful for 'cause a lot of the times it is kind of unfixable once it's done.

Andrea:
Right. And that's what makes it really scary, to not be able to undo what's already been done. We're talking about people's livelihoods here, their savings.

Jaden:
Retirement saving. Yeah.

Andrea:
Absolutely.

Jaden:
Social security.

Andrea:
Any other specific types of scams or attacks people should look out for?

Jaden:
Here's a newer one that came out. Newer ones are puppy scams.

Andrea:
Puppy scams.

Jaden:
Puppy scams. So, you'll be online just looking at puppies and they'll say that there's a cute little puppy in a different country, usually like Canada or a different place that's far from your location, say you have to order the puppy. You call the person and you order this puppy and you give them the money and they'll say, "Oh, well, the puppy, it's on its way, but it needs some food now. Can you pay a few hundred for food and treats?" And they'll basically try to just siphon out money from you over and over again with nothing on the way.

Andrea:
And you think that you're helping this puppy make its way to you because it's going to be your new pet?

Jaden:
Yep.

Andrea:
Oh my goodness.

Jaden:
Yeah. An especially scary one, this is the most recent one that I heard of, is with the further development of artificial intelligence, basically computers can learn to kind of mimic your voice. Computers have been getting really good at that lately, where it can clone voices. And the latest scam is a scammer will kind of basically look at a person and try to find a family member's social media or something where they can get a lot of data on their voice and try to clone that through AI to say whatever they want and they'll call you, like a grandparent or something and say, "Hey, we have your grandchild. He's here. He's either been arrested or kidnapped. He's right here with him. We need you to pay him to bail him out."

Andrea:
Oh my goodness. I have chills, in a bad way.

Jaden:
And because of that cloning AI voice that they've generated, it could sound pretty close to what that grandchild sounds like. And if the person they're calling has hearing issues or they haven't heard their grandchild's voice in a while, it could definitely be something that they fall for.

So yeah, I'd say if you're kind of in that situation, call the person that they say they're kidnapping. Always try to call them and get extra details. And the most important thing about, if you're not sure about if you're talking to a scammer or not, just ask questions, because the more you ask questions, the more their story is going to sound a bit suspicious and fall apart.

Andrea:
Absolutely. I think that is fantastic advice for anyone. Never be afraid to question if something doesn't feel right. Keep asking more questions and feel it out because better safe than sorry.

Jaden:
Oh, yeah. For the Amazon scam, for example, for the future, the best course of action that you can take, is also if you're not sure, just hang up, search up the Amazon number or whatever number that company is calling from online and just call that number and ask for the person. And if they're not there, then they'll know it's a scammer. And if they are there, well, it's legit.

Andrea:
Absolutely. That makes perfect sense. That's good advice, too. Other than that, any more tips for individuals or families to protect themselves?

Jaden:
Just make sure your passwords are secure. I know it's annoying to remember all the lowercase and uppercase and all the special characters.

Andrea:
Yes, it is. It very much is.

Jaden:
But it's something that's definitely vital and necessary, especially because it's always a evolving battle because the scammers' technology to break into things gets better, and our technology to fight against it is always a battle between one and the other of which one's better. Yeah, just make sure your passwords are secure. Try to stay on secure websites. The extension or the end of the domain, the, .com is a safe one, .co, .edu, try to stay on those specifically.

Andrea:
Okay, very good. And password managers, also a very good tool to use.

Jaden:
Yes.

Andrea:
Right? I need to take my own advice and use one of those. I've been learning more about them and there's some different options out there.

Jaden:
Yeah, yeah. No, those are definitely-

Andrea:
'Cause everything needs a password, so it's difficult to manage it all.

Jaden:
And you got to try to switch them up because if one password gets linked and you have that password on everything, then basically everything's compromised. So you got to try to switch it up too if you can.

Andrea:
Okay. Anything else that we should discuss that we haven't discussed in honor of Cybersecurity Awareness month?

Jaden:
Yeah, just make sure to ask questions and stay on your toes and questions, question, questions, verify and don't willingly give out your bank account information unless it's from a completely trusted source.

Andrea:
Very good. If you think you are a victim and you have given your information to someone who is not who they say they are, you should stay calm, disconnect from the internet, change your passwords, and consider using a password manager to help you keep track of those.

Depending on the nature of the cyber attack or scam, you'll want to contact your financial institutions. And you want to report the scam. Report it to the appropriate authorities. This could be local law enforcement. That's a great place to start. The Indiana State Police Cyber Crime and Investigative Technology Section also takes those reports. You might need to report it to the Federal Trade Commission.

For more information, you can visit our government's Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency website. This site has great information and resources available to you. It's cisa.gov, a great website to visit if you want to know more about cybersecurity and the steps you should take, if indeed you find yourself a victim of some sort of cyber attack.

All right, Jaden, that was great conversation. Timely as we kick off Cybersecurity Awareness month and very valuable, I think, for anyone listening. I appreciate you taking the time to share your insights with us. I know you and the entire fiber team are doing such an outstanding job of providing great, reliable fiber internet service to our community, but also helping our subscribers when they need it, so thank you.

Jaden:
Yeah, no problem. I'm glad to be here and glad to talk to our customers every day and try to guide them in the right direction and help them out if needed.

Andrea:
Very good. I know they appreciate that, too. Enjoy the rest of your day, Jaden, and I'm sure we'll talk again soon.

Jaden:
Awesome. Thanks.

Andrea:
You've been listening to Connected Conversations, the official podcast of Kosciusko Connect. From all of us at Kosciusko Connect, thank you for connecting with us today.